This month we feature an interview with Dave Vanian and Captain Sensible recorded for GLR (Greater London Radio) to promote the co-headlining Phantom Chords/Captain Sensible tour of December 1995. Shortly afterwards Dave and Captain would reform The Damned.

Interviewer: And the record you just heard was The Phantom Chords with Town Without Pity and the lead singer of the Phantom Chords, and the man behind it, and the genius that is The Phantom Chords' Dave Vanian. Welcome to the show. Thanks a lot for coming in.

Dave: Good morning.

Interviewer: We don't know if the Captain's on his way, do we?

Dave: We don't know.

Interviewer: Do you call him the Captain or do you call him Ray or?

Dave: We always call him Captain.

Interviewer: Not the Captain.

Dave: Well, the Captain, whatever.

Interviewer: Might be a bit too much respect. You are The Captain! Anyway, The Phantom Chords and Captain Sensible's band without a name, that is quite a good name for a band, but he hasn't got a name for his band, that isn't the name of the band.

Dave: Well he might have a name for his band but he was playing with a guy called Spacetoad that I don't think he's playing with.

Interviewer: Right. You don't know who's in the band?

Dave: I don't know at all, no.

Interviewer: Spacetoads is a good name for a band.

Dave: I don't know who's in my band on Saturday, really.

Interviewer: Is it a floating line-up, The Phantom Chords?

Dave: Yeah, it's a weird one this one. well, not usually but this one's a kind of a thrown together extravagance.

Interviewer: Now anyone that comes along on Saturday, It's at the Mean Fiddler by the way, they're gonna be hoping for a Damned reunion, surely?

Dave: Mmmmmmm.

Interviewer: We won't go into it then. No, you don't have to give anything away, although you have, a little bit. Sorry. That's a great record, I really love that version of Town Without Pity, but what a tough song to cover. Was that the first single, The Phantom Chords?

Dave: No, we did one years ago, Johnny Remember Me.

Interviewer: And again a tough song to cover.

Dave: Yeah, good fun though. I always liked Gene Pitney, marvellous songs. I could never get up on that, the end of Backstage, you know those last high notes, I don't think I can reach those. (laughs)

Interviewer: I always think that if people are going to do covers, I mean that is a great version and I wouldn't say the equal of Gene Pitney because that's giving anyone too much credence, obviously. But trying to do that, didn't you think 'we've got a tough job on our hands now?'

Dave: I dunno. I just loved the song and I thought we could do it. So, I think we did it justice.

Interviewer: 'Cause on your album which was out earlier on this year you do a Screamin' Jay Hawkins cover which must be even harder.

Dave: Yeah, well funnily enough it's not. It's easier to do Screamin' Jay than it is to do Gene Pitney.

Interviewer: Give us a bit of Screamin' Jay now...

Dave: Oh, c'mon, get out of it.

[New Rose plays]


Interviewer: First ever punk single New Rose by The Damned from, was it '76 or '77?

Dave: '76.

Interviewer: '76. So well ahead of the competition there, for a while anyway. (laughs) The Damned split up the first time in '78 didn't they.

Dave: What happened was Brian left, the guitarist, so it was 'oh god what are we going to do now?' But we didn't really split up, we stayed together but...for five minutes we sort of split up.

Interviewer: And then the next day was the reunion...

Dave: What happened was Captain took over, 'cause he always played guitar first and foremost and then he was the bass player in The Damned but he always wanted to be the guitarist anyway, so there was always this friction between Brian and Captain. Worked out fine, but we...yeah, people have come and gone for years but we never actually said 'oh that's it, it's over'.

Interviewer: There's never been an official 'The Damned are gone' has there?

Dave: No. It's always 'we really must be going' or 'we're on our way back' or it's been the indignation of them trying to burry us so we'll do it anyway kind of thing.

Interviewer: You know when bands start and it's all like mates having a laugh and whatever and suddenly it becomes something else. Was there ever a time when you sort of realised you were becoming snotty and showbizzy? Did that ever happen to The Damned or not?

Dave: Mmmmmm. I didn't really get snotty and showbizzy but it happened a bit, yeah. I think it does. I think if you get things given to you on a plate and all this sort of stuff sometimes it goes to your head.

Interviewer: But it's just that...I spoke to Jo Brand yesterday 'cause she was a big Damned fan and she always goes on about when she used to see The Damned and I rang her yesterday and I said 'have you got any good Damned stories' and she said 'no, not really, just went to see 'em, and whatever' but she said 'there was one time I went to the Clarendon', the long lamented dear lost Clarendon, and she said 'and we didn't have tickets and we couldn't get in and we sort of sneaked in through a door and thought where would this lead us, and it lead into the Damned's dressing room' and she said, 'we can't get tickets' and I don't weather it was you or whoever in the band said 'oh you can just stay here'. And so she sat in during the soundcheck and then when people started coming in they thought she was with the band and was very important and was treated like royalty for the rest of the night. And I thought what a cute thing to do.

[Love Song plays]


Interviewer: From 1978, The Damned with Love Song and in such a short period of time that sounds like a completely different band.

Dave: Well it kind of was in a way. 'Cause you didn't have Brian in there, so it's Captain... That's probably some of the best albums that came out of the Chiswick period.

Interviewer: 'Cause Love Song in a way, I mean it's obviously a punk record but it's got...it's a pop tune and everything...

Dave: It's got melody thrown in there.

Interviewer: Did you notice yourself changing you know musically very quickly?

Dave: Ugh...

Interviewer: Had you been in bands before The Damned?

Dave: No, well not really. It's a weird thing, we were kind of in a band, there was this weird band that never played that was Rat, Captain was brought in as well funnily enough for a short time, and it was Chrissie Hynde and another singer, had no name, didn't do any gigs but rehearsed and then it got disbanded and The Damned started. But um, what was I going to say? The Chiswick years was, it was all pretty experimental after that first album, every track was viewed on whatever we could do really. It was never thought of well, is it changing or is it not, 'cause there were four people or whatever working on the stuff so you never knew where it was going to go.

Interviewer: Did you have Beatles type battles, did you have like ' no, we wanna to do this, no, we wanna do this'?

Dave: Not very often, funnily enough. 'Cause I think it's because it was track by track rather than half a dozen songs that all had the same kind of feel to them.

Interviewer: There was never going to be a Damned concept album?

Dave: Not really. I don't think so. Not in that sort of, I dunno, not in the sort of Phil Collins type... (laughs)

Interviewer: What, just like loads of bad records...

Dave: I mean our Black Album was supposed to be the closest to the White Album I suppose that The Beatles did, 'cause it was experimental and stuff, you know with Curtain Call and things like that.

Interviewer: Looking at The Phantom Chords now and looking at The Damned stuff and um...You know when every one does that whole like teds and punks thing that was happening in the '70's and it was all like we're the backlash against rock 'n' roll and outdated values, and now, you're in a band playing rock 'n' roll, without being a covers revival Sha-na-na type band, you are playing rock 'n' roll...

Dave: The thing is, I always said at the beginning it was like Gene Vincent and garage bands and stuff that influenced me anyway, so that doesn't seem strange to me.

Interviewer: It seems strange that it was such a big backlash suddenly and yet The Clash were doing Brand New Cadillac and...

Dave: Well Joe, you know he loved rock 'n' roll, he still does. I think he's got a rockabilly band still that he does stuff with and that. And um, even Sid Vicious, he originally was like a sort of rocker, when he was awake. (laughs)

Interviewer: But yet the Pistols were covering sort of old '50's and '60's songs, and it just seems...I didn't notice it at the time, I was probably much too young, but there was all that punks and teds hating each other and fighting and everything...

Dave: I think that was just the teds though 'cause what happened was the teds at the time were quite popular and suddenly all this colourful sort of people came along in leather jackets and stuff and they felt threatened by it all and wondered what the hell it was. But, I was trying to think about, um, no it's gone. (laughs)

Interviewer: It wasn't your David Bowie story?

Dave: No. Except that he came to see us once, watched Motorhead and didn't watch The Damned, went off and had his lunch...in Germany. And Rat got very excited thinking 'oh David Bowie's here to see us' and then he buggered off and had his lunch.

Interviewer: You should have been 'oh Bowie's here, were not going on 'till he leaves'. That's how you should tell the story from now on like 'we didn't go on until he left'.

Dave: I didn't even know he was there until it was over.

Interviewer: Yeah, you go and eat, you're looking thin, you white duke, there. Go and fatten yourself up.

[Neat Neat Neat plays]


Interviewer: The Damned with Neat Neat Neat and finally, it's very strange bit of synchronicity 'cause just as we were talking about your musical taste you walked in. Captain Sensible has finally arrived after a night of just...

Captain: I was taking my daughter to the Hospital.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave: So was I funnily enough and he had the nerve to say 'why are you late?'

Interviewer: I'm going to ask now. What's the matter with her?

Captain: Actually the truth is I was completely wrecked last night. And at least that's believable about me.

Interviewer: But is that true or is that just you still being a wild punk man.

Dave: No, I like to drink. (laughs)

Interviewer: At least you're living that life still up to a point. So um, well that's that really. We were talking about you and your Abba fixation and the bad records you listen to at home, just as you walked in, myself and Dave.

Captain: Yeah, they were really funny days the punk days, because you had to like, you know if you had a journo come 'round you had to hide your Abba records, or your Jimi, even your Jimi Hendrix stuff...

Interviewer: And get your Stooges one's out.

Captain: Yeah. I remember when, was it Jimmy Page and Robert Plant 'came down to the Roxy club to see us play in The Damned and that in end of '76 or something, and I was really desperate to shake their hands. I loved all that prog rock stuff and you know I had to like nudge up to them and say 'hello...(mumbles)'.

Interviewer: But you couldn't let anyone see.

Captain: Someone said to me 'what did you say to them?', I said 'get out of here, you don't belong here'. (laughs)

Interviewer: And you were saying 'can I have your autograph in a minute Mr Plant'

Captain: Yeah, what a liar, hey.

Interviewer: Oh, that is very very sad. (laughs) Dave, have you got any sort of horrible little musical beasts in your closet?

Dave: Urrrrgh....No. (laughs) Loads of them.

Interviewer: So you wouldn't know from listening to your records Captain that you liked some bad pop music in your time. You'd never guess that?

Captain: Yeah. I like that, remember that Nolans song, (starts singing) 'who's gonna rock gonna rock you now, who's gonna fill your desire'.

Dave: I don't remember that one, I tell you.

Interviewer: And I never want to hear it again, having never heard it in the first place.

Dave: Shudup A You Face, now there was a good pop song.

Captain: Yeah, the great thing about that one was it kept Ultravox off the No 1 spot. 'Cause they had Vienna right which was definitely their main chance and Shudup A You Face kept them off the top spot.

Interviewer: You see that's when justice happens.

Captain: I liked the stories about (Oasis) on the boats and that having punch ups and that. It reminds me of, now what was that band we used to be in?

Dave: Dunno.

Interviewer: Have you two not seen each other for a long time?

Dave: No, we haven't.

Captain: Do you remember that time on the boat we were going to Harwich or something like that and we had that roadie...

Dave: The one we were going to throw in the sea?

Captain: We were gonna chuck 'im off the boat. That's the sort of thing (Oasis) do now. Good luck to 'em. They can have the job.

Interviewer: But don't you think it's sort of been done up to a point, you know bands being in the news for being...

Captain: Dodgy working class blokes in a band getting loads of dosh and you know the odd sort of powder, good luck to 'em, let 'em do it.

Interviewer: But is there no point as you grow up, and have children and have to bring them to the Hospital and whatever, when you sort of look back and think 'oh that was a silly thing to do'.

Captain: Yeah, I wish I hadn't smashed all those guitars. God, dear oh dear.

[Jesebel plays]


Interviewer: The Phantom Chords or Dave Vanian and The Phantom Chords as they're known when they want to sell some records, but the rest of the time just The Phantom Chords. Did you sell many records?

Dave: Oh, not enough.

Interviewer: There never is enough, is there? never enough to know Robson and Jerome off the No 1 spot. And you play many gigs?

Dave: I'd like to though, I'd like to give it a go.

Interviewer: Do you want a No 1 record?

Dave: I'd love a No 1 record, yeah, of course. Wouldn't everyone.

Interviewer: Really? 'Cause I never thought that's what being in a band was about. I mean there is that sort of thing like we obviously want to be the most successful and the most loved but on the other hand there's like we wanna play music that most people aren't gonna like.

Dave: Well, I don't think that's a compromise. If you can do a record that you know is right for the right reasons that gets to No 1, that's great, but I'm not going to write a song just to get to No 1

Interviewer: There's someone guilty looking next to you who's thinking there are records that get to No 1...

Captain: Yeah, but I've got a story, I mean...

Dave: Is that a David Bowie story?

Captain: No, no, no, it's not... But for me, I mean, you can get to No 1 and have success and stuff like that, I mean as possibly I did you know, even with a stinking song that I didn't write but the thing is it's much easier and it's much more, I know it's a terrible thing to say but, profitable, to do it without a stinking manager and a stinking record company, you do it with some small label and without a manager and you can actually keep some of the proceeds and I've come out of the whole Happy Talk thing penniless. And after two years of like quite a lot of success you know around Europe and especially in Britain.

Interviewer: Was that penniless because you blew it all or penniless because you never got any?

Captain: No, because the stinking manager kept every penny and when I left him I had nothing, nothing at all.

Interviewer: And that was David Bowie in his short lived managerial term. No that's shocking that Bowie would do that to you. And all the money he's got.

Captain: (long pause) Yeah, what's this David Bowie thing anyway? He's some old git!

Interviewer: That's as good a one as we've had so far. We don't know what's happening with your band this week, we were talking to Dave who's got a band and they'll be playing on Saturday...

Dave: Spacetoad your playing with, isn't it?

Captain: No, I got this band, we call ourselves Punk Floyd 'cause it's like quite punky and a bit spaced out, yeah when the audience lets us get away with it.

Interviewer: And what do people see at a Captain Sensible show, what songs do you do?

Captain: I do an entire cross section of everything I've ever done and um, mainly actually Dave, the lyrics I can remember. (laughs) It's terrible that, when you get to 40 and that, the old memory goes...

Interviewer: Here's another instrumental...(laughs)

Captain: (sings) Happy ummmmm. (laughs)

Interviewer: Who was the main songwriter in The Damned, was it either or you?

Captain: Yeah, we used to share. Yeah, we shared Machine Gun Etiquette, Black Album, good fun records to work on. We had a great time recording 'em, complete lunacy, you know, no sleep and stuff like that because...

Dave: We used to work all night, Rat used to go in during the day.

Captain: No, because we had such good ideas.

Dave: Such good ideas, yes.

Interviewer: This is a vague recollection now, but I remember reading something about, I can't remember weather it was your first album or your second album and there was some like fuss about who the producer was... I've read a million of these stories about bands not getting on with the producer...

Dave: You're thinking of the producer we sacked, maybe?

Captain: Yeah, tell 'im the circumstances in which you sacked him Dave, that was really funny.

Dave: Why don't you tell him, Captain. Allegedly, I might add.

Captain: There'd been a grim atmosphere in the control room. What was his name, that geezer?

Dave: I don't even remember his name, now.

Captain: Just some git who the record company got in to keep us in line. Dave walked in, and he was sitting there at the desk, and Dave had a black thing over his head, you know sort of like...

Dave: The hanging judge.

Captain: And that was it and we gave him five minutes to get his stuff out of the studio. Dave chased him out, was it with a shotgun?

Dave: We thought he was an engineer and he started saying 'well no, you can't do it like this, you've gotta do it like that, you can't do this' and I thought, in the middle of all this gear, there was this pimply faced kid sitting there pressing buttons and it was terrible, he wasn't adding anything and he wasn't helping so no-one would sort of get rid of him, so I did.

Captain: Do you remember when he said 'are you guys on the case, or what?' and Paul Gray had just fallen over on the flight case. (laughs) And as he was playing the song, it's actually went on the album, it was Gun Fury Of Riot Forces, he was actually urinating as he was playing the bass. (laughs) Disgraceful behaviour.

Interviewer: Right, you gonna hang around for a while, 'cause officially you're over at eleven...

Captain: I'm going down to Camden market to get some hippy clothes for the gig.

Dave: Are you?

Captain: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah, but you're gonna hang around for a bit?

Captain: OK.

[Smash It Up plays]